I was just trying to gain support. I figure that the best way to get support is to ask. Tell me if I am wrong about that. I was perfectly willing to log roll our goals if that’s what it took. I respect your goal,but don’t agree with it. You seem to be the same way in regards to my goal. It was not my goal to be “vitriol” as you put it. I apologize if that is how you took it. I wanted to gain support. You didn’t demand I post, and I get that, but then who demands that someone post in a request.

How
much more support do you need with my tiny little campaign? If anything, I
should be begging you for support. But I don’t beg. If people want to
support my idea, great. If they don’t for whatever
reason, great!

I’m going to do what my best for Star
Wars and its fans and attempt a positive and enriching outcome. I am going to optimize my campaign to be the best.

You never asked us for support, you started with a statement of condemnation. Then
you got personal – an ad hominem comment, and then you raised the bar in logic fallacies. I still do not know who you are… I made sure I questioned your ideas and process so I
can understand. I still don’t understand. How can I empathize with your cause when I don’t understand?

Sure we can all
write our posts better. My admin makes plenty of post per day. I know my
admin works hard and does a great job. The intent of original post was
to share fan art, then ask for endorsement. Endorsement for us means
signing the petition at http://bit.ly/Thrawn77.  

Page
management is difficult when admins live all over the world without phycial communication. But I know my admins intent, and it was good.

I
do not expect any EU fan or group to want to talk me due to the history. Honestly I don’t have much to say to any hardcore EU hateful fan. I will say, I’m not going to get in your
way. But I can’t have people attacking my social media with unwarranted, unfounded with lies and aspersions, especially when the comments fail to be germane to the post. I say
the same comments to new canon fans. Because as a RPer, ALL the
literature should be known. Not pick and choose what side we’re on, and all the good
RPers are well-read. Those that aren’t, suffer in RP. That’s a fact.

I
got in trouble for saying that here. Thankfully I interviewed Greg
Weisman on my podcast and after speaking to him about reading books, it made me feel better.

Toxic Star Wars Fandom “Get Thrawn In” May 27, 2015 Part 7

I was just trying to gain some support for my cause. I don’t want to continue Legends in small ways in the canon. I want the stories that have been written to be continued. However, you don’t have to worry, I have more than learned that the admins aren’t interested in working together, so I’m done.

But who would work with you, Anon, without the vitriol you bring onto people’s pages? I did not DEMAND you post here. But you did. I engaged you for an exercise to embolden what my group and I really want to do with this page.

SWAG77 fandom support:

There’s no need because I’m only interested in admins like the admin from Star Wars Legends Memes, and that’s because I trust her. I’d rather her lead the continued Star Wars legends books campaign than people I ran across who try and put others like the page owner to get Thrawn in Star Wars Rebels down. I don’t trust anyone anymore. It takes a lot more than just good speeches to impress me. ~Solonator

Toxic Star Wars Fandom “Get Thrawn In” May 27, 2015 Part 6

A continuation from Part 5

Posted from Get Thrawn In ASK:

I never said I didn’t support Disney Star Wars. I hope it’s good just like you do, so there is something that we agree on. I have no problem following two timelines at the same time. Thank you for your request of me to join the save Constantine movement, but I am already a part of it. From a business perspective, the Thrawn Trilogy was supposed to fail. I don’t see how granting the EU status as an ongoing alternate universe isn’t going to do anything except profit for Disney… We have already proven that are people out there wanting to buy new Legends books, so the worst it can do is
make money.  I don’t see how making more books doesn’t make sense. Once again, I will bring up how the love for the Ultimate universe in Marvel Comics
when it was created caused people to ask for more Ultimate timeline comics.  The Ultimate Universe only recently ended, and a lot of that was because they were gearing up for the second Secret Wars.  As for the whole confrontational thing, your invitation at celebration, from my perspective looks like confrontation.  Your attitude on these posts seems
confrontational and reactive.  Whether that is true doesn’t concern me.  I was here to gain EU support. I don’t understand your argument of the business perspective.  It doesn’t seem to be a valid argument to me, so I am still hoping to log roll our goals.

OUR RESPONSE:

Your methods make no sense. You post unwelcomed comments on pages and tell these pages that their ideas suck and say they should join you. To me, that’s condemnation and confrontation.

I’m not trying to hear that my idea is bad because I’m not involved with you. I’m not trying to hear on my own page that I’m a reactive and confrontational person when YOU chose to post on MY page.

I’m not trying to hear that I invite confrontation when I feel I did not do that at Celebration because I felt I had a right to protect myself and my assets, SWAG77 – which the GetThrawnIn page is included. I have a right to bring the debate to my booth and have it there, then having it somewhere to gang up on me. I gave myself some home-field advantage. Say those words in front of casual or notable fans, like Rancho Obi-Wan and Consetta Parker, and Tom Hodges wife, all who visited my booth. Say those things with our booth area mates like the artist Randy Martinez or Denise Vasquez or the San Diego Star Wars Society. All of them are EU fans but are completely disenfranchised by your tactics.

Now one of my admins may have spoken to you to “bring us to the table to talk,” and you are talking, but you are the ONLY one talking. And after all I’ve suffered, I’m going to have to see more people talk to me respectfully and frankly than just you. Because really, I would rather be a tiny page with no likes than endure what was delivered to me by your group. You can’t apologize because I don’t accept it, especially what happened to me in the last 3 months. That is how it is. It’s not worth it to me from both a personal or business perspective.

I said perhaps if you could get major actors to sign on with your cause like the #SaveContantine folks. Perhaps, Lucasfilm will hear you.

I don’t know about the Marvel Ultimate verse schism. I only care about Star Wars. For this page, yes, one of our objectives is to show how Disney can make money. We have to show how effective that is in story, production, and merchandise. Let’s be real here; that is how they need to see it. That is what we debate and decide on in the planning committee. If you want to influence this page, you need to be in the planning group shown on the page. Right now, it’s not as active as I’d like, but it can be. It’s a “different” way.

The Thrawn trilogy succeeded for all purposes. It doesn’t matter what people thought back then. The naysayers said that Star Wars ANH would fail, but we debated the EU and my campaign. Our timeline is BEFORE the Thrawn Trilogy, so we do not affect any continuity. Our timeline is AFTER Outbound Flight and the Mist Encounter, so our campaign is not challenging that continuity. All we are saying is to put THRAWN in the Star Wars Rebels continuity, which is why….

I don’t know those numbers of people wanting to buy the EU books. What are the gross receipts on that? What the impacts? Are you saying all 50,000 of your likes bought significant sums of EU books to show Disney the desire? What was your final number?

For me, I’m interested in going after a significant demographic that will change Disney’s mind. But like I said, that’s discussed in the planning group.

Look, as far as EU support, which is hilarious for you to accuse me of not supporting it, I was the one that promoted the campaign on Twitter to get the Yuuzhan Vong in TCW in 2010. I have the tweets that prove it on my original character page, Senator Yemaja Mlise Lah. I’m a huge Yuuzhan Vong Empire fan. A friend and I created this RP in 2010 on Twitter, how the Embrace of pain would be worded, how we defend ourselves in RP. No one liked us back then. And we kept at it. Then I was told by Lucasfilm that I could not portray my character if I wanted a fan table at Celebration. So as heartbreaking as it was, I made the sacrifice ( what YuuzhanVong do) to forgo my created character to gain access. That’s me. My choice. I made it. We all have to make choices.

5 years ago, when I started, there were no discussions like this one, more like what Lucasfilm allows. But now it’s a different day. At a different time and today, all I care about is doing a good job with my page.

As far as supporting your page, I’m not too fond of your tactics. IDC if you don’t like mine. But that does not negate my love for the EU from my perspective. Maybe to you, it does. But ok. That’s where we are on this debate—a stalemate.

I’m not going to bash books on the Del Rey Star Wars site. I’m not going to go over to their page and tell them politely or not that their new books are worthless and to bring back the EU. I’m not going to do it. Other members of SWAG77 are free to do that under their own name, but not as representatives of SWAG77. That is how I run my business.

I don’t go to other people’s pages unless I am named specifically and doxed and told to be destroyed, which is what your entire campaign looks like to me. I’m not going to operate until you all change, but your apologies mean nothing to me. Your actions speak louder than words.

Part 7

Toxic Star Wars Fandom “Get Thrawn In” May 27, 2015 Part 4

A continuation from Part 3

Posted in Get Thrawn In ASK:

First, I didn’t say you specifically say you wrote the letter. I said it was from your group, not to mention I don’t see your leap in logic from letter writing to cowardice, but that’s not worth arguing over, at least not from my perspective. Second, this conversation didn’t start out as a crusade against your goal. I mentioned my opinion about the goal, but the main point of my original post was to garner support for my group, to to deter yours…(more added)

If you want Thrawn in Rebels, go for it.  If it’s something that you want, then it’s just as important as my group’s goal.  I just wanted to gain more support for my group, and if your claim that you
support all of the goals related to Star Wars such as your example of promoting Thrawn in Rebels, then you would be open to supporting our goal, which you don’t seem to be, so I have assume that you mean that “there is one Star Wars in its entirety that belongs to all the fans and with that, I am going to support all the goals, except restoring the old EU under the Legends banner.”  I happen to believe that my goal is also worthwhile, just as much as yours, with a solid support with the pursuit of positive fandom, social media metrics, and fun online activities that everyone can participate in.  I know exactly how approachable Zahn, Luceno, and Denning are.  I have met them, but they aren’t going to be writing new Legends right now. I have tried to talk with Christie Golden about her plans for the Sword of the Jedi trilogy, which was supposed to nearly have the first installment done before Disney. However, she won’t talk about it. I will reiterate that we can write fan fics all we want, but we would
start off with the same hitches as the original EU with hit and miss when it comes to quality due to the initial lack of experience from many writers.  We don’t want another book like The Crystal Star.  The old EU authors had an incredible vision with a really solid team setup in how to handle the EU. I will once again repeat myself in saying that the fan fiction idea is still Plan B, but if I have the choice between writing Sword of the Jedi myself and having Christie Golden write it, I am going to pick Christie because right now I recognize that she is a better writer than I am. I’d compare it to the situation to the fan fictions written about Firefly after its cancellation.  Were some of the stories good?  Yes.  Were any of them
as good as the conclusion that Joss Whedon got to eventually write?  In my opinion, no.  The same would be true here.  We might be able to write
good stuff, but if we can get someone with experience who is better at it, then it only makes logical sense to at least try to get the better author.
Getting better authors to write the stories isn’t a matter of a lack in confidence.  It’s a respect for the story already established and a belief that there is more story that these authors can tell.  My intention was not to demean your group.  I only leveled some criticism (which I had hoped you would take constructively) because of your initial critiques.  I
also hope you realize that my group’s goal has made more headway than what you are probably aware of.  It hasn’t been much, but we got the short story,
Skyewalkers, from Starwars.com a little while back as new Legends material.  There is also a trilogy of books being written by Sequart, one of which will focus on the movies, but the other two have original EU focus, one on the comics specifically, and the other on the EU as a whole. They are supplemental essays that will help to garner support and awareness for our cause, which is another step towards our goal.  With these promising beginning steps, we don’t want to jump right into fan fiction
when we seem to be making some progress. Regardless of all this, you still appear to be uninterested and I see no need to continue this
conversation unless you have a sudden change in heart or a question about our movement.
You still seem to have taken my comments in a context I didn’t intend.  You still seem reactive and confrontational, so unless you respond with something that I deem as something I should I respond to, I will not be back, so unless you have something worthwhile to respond with, just don’t.
More confrontational talk will do little more than waste time trying to get the last word.  If you have a question or a realignment, feel free to respond, but don’t waste both your time and mine getting angry.

OUR RESPONSE:

No one in the Star Wars Actors Guild 77 wrote a letter under our banner and my business license to Disney Lucasfilm Star Wars about your group.

THIS page is about getting THRAWN into Star Wars Rebels. We think he is a good villain character candidate because he can beat Force users with Ysalamiri and his brilliant military genius. We think that the creative development of this show
allows an “art critic” of high caliber to meet the needs to handle the
Rebels.

That is our angle. Your choice to help us or not. I offered promotion of fan
fictions, youtube videos and artwork in the spirit of Star Wars.

What can you offer me? What’s in it for me? Because right now, and don’t
worry, I’m not coming to your page to do anything to your page or group.
I don’t care enough about it.

TBH, I do not understand returning the EU Legends to their former glory from
a business perspective. How do you measure that? A book will do it? How
many books? All of them? What would be the return on investment (ROI)?
So what if “The Force Awakens”? We should kick “Rey” or Kylo Ren – Star Wars because they are new canon, and boo, we hate new canon? That’s Star Wars fandom to you? How supportive as positive fans is that?

And lastly, there is a reply button, and you don’t need to create a new post.
Press reply on your phone because it shows you can’t hold a
conversation and use ad hominem logic fallacies by blaming me as
confrontational and reactive when all I am having with you is a debate. Not a conciliatory meet-up on my page to agree to your cause. That’s not what I’m here for.

So is this page for ALL fans by your definition? I guess not. But neither is your page.

Why don’t you all try this method that the #SaveConstatine folks are doing? It looks like they’ll take it seriously: http://getthrawnin.tumblr.com/…/crowley-king-of-ass…

Part 5

Toxic Star Wars Fandom “Get Thrawn In” May 27, 2015 Part 2

A continuation from Part 1

Posted in Get Thrawn In ASK:

You have obviously taken my comments the wrong way and seem to be overreacting. You don’t seem to understand the goal. Giving Lucasfilm the creative freedom to do as they please in the canon is fine. We fully endorse creative freedom, but we want our old EU back as an alternate universe, and we want it continued, not cherrypicked or ended. I don’t see the need for us to sacrifice anything really.

Do you know how Firefly got its conclusion in the movie Serenity?  Do you know how tv shows have frequently stayed on the air?  Do you know how there are still Middle Earth Books being written.  This all comes from fan request and campaign.  We know
that we can write fanfiction.  That’s our Plan B, but obviously, our ability to write a is not quite the level of authors like Zahn, Denning, or Luceno.  We are in this for the long haul.  We will fight for the EU
for several years, and if we don’t have the EU back sometime probably in the next five or six years, we start Plan B.  We don’t want to give up the
universe that we love.  Yes we have the potential plans to write the stories ourselves, but I’m sure you would rather have Zahn write a new Thrawn book rather than a random fan out there without the credentials or the panache to write nearly as compelling a story.  If you received threats, we apologize.  That is not a tactic that we endorse as a whole.  I will reiterate again that there are bad apples in every group.  You can’t exactly blame someone for confronting you though when you invited them to your booth.  You openly asked for confrontation.  I think it says something that
you had only a single person even confront you when you opened up an invitation for such behavior. When you initiated this confrontational behavior,
we actually issued out our own message to our group just telling everyone to stay out of your way. In the post it was addressed that a letter was written to Disney claiming our group was planning on inciting violence.  At the end, he said that SWAG 77 probably didn’t really like us anyways due to some early collisions in the groups.  Please cut out the
innocent act.  You aren’t the only one who feels cyber bullied.  Several members of our group feel bullied by SWAG 77, and whether it was your
intention or not, some people have felt threatened by you as well, and they didn’t see a need to write to Disney claiming that SWAG 77 was planning
on inciting violence. They didn’t invite the group to confront them and then gather a force in case of confrontation.  We chose to avoid confrontation
and just stay clear.  I have just been trying to bridge this gap to help widen our both of our support groups.  You seem reactive and confrontational, so I can see that if there are members of your groups the same goals as my group, you are not the person to go through.  May the Force Be With You.

OUR RESPONSE:

But see, I didn’t write a letter to Disney about you or your EU group…

Why would I waste my time on that silliness? Yeah, like your seriously that
important to prompt me to waste my time telling Lucasfilm about you when I am at a Celebration fan table only to talk about this campaign and showing our projects.

Really. That’s cowardice on your part. You need to get your facts straight.

Is this your page? Oh yeah, NO it’s not. Do I go on your page and say all
the stuff you just said above? No. I don’t. Because this page is about
THRAWN and getting him in Star Wars Rebels.

The pic is posted as an image of him being the Grand Admiral with a
Ysalamiri around his neck. The purpose of this image is to familiarize
new fans or casual fans about Thrawn and the Chiss and how they were
able to fend off Force users.

I think that is a good thing, don’t you?

Nitpicking on fans on pages you do not own with lies and deceit is not Star Wars fandom.

Star Wars fans educate new fans and casual fans about all of Star Wars. They
encourage them. All I see on MY PAGE is you posting diatribes about how
much better you are than me.

I think there is one Star Wars in its entirety that belongs to all the
fans and with that, I am going to support all the goals and encourage Disney Corporation and Lucasfilm Star Wars to Get Thrawn In Star Wars Rebels.

I think it is a worthwhile goal with the pursuit of positive fandom,
social media metrics and fun online activities where everyone can
participate.

You all need to have more confidence in yourself when demanding
any story out of an author. MOST authors are approachable. Even Timothy Zahn, James Luceno, and Troy Denning.  Most authors encourage budding new authors to build their stories from any series than to wait for them. If you say you’ve read all these EU books, then you should be more than capable of building another
story about fave topics. That’s what Daniel Wallace, Jason C. Fry, Tricia Barr, and Adam Bray do. In fact, John Jackson Miller on the SWAG 77 Podcast said to write your own stories…

Perhaps, if you were to write drabbles and drills with our method you could develop an EXCELLENT story. But you wouldn’t know unless you
tried. That is the basis of what the Star Wars Actors Guild 77 does online.

As I said, I’d promote the HELLO out of some THRAWN fan fiction as long as it is in the spirit of Star Wars and well-written.

Part 3

Toxic Star Wars Fandom “Get Thrawn In” May 27, 2015 Part 3

A continuation of Part 2

Posted In Get Thrawn In ASK:

I wasn’t trying to necessarily dog Swag 77. We just had some issues with them recently. They made claims that the EU group had plans to start a full riot at Celebration telling Disney to be wary of us. I really don’t have anything against Swag 77’s goal, but like you with our groups, we had some problems. We really don’t want to take down Disney Star Wars either. Some of us are interested in the new stuff. Some of us aren’t.

Some of us aren’t.   I get that the profits for the books aren’t huge compared to the movies and toys, but the EU had books, comics, and video games.  Video games such as KOTOR and The Force Unleashed brought in a lot of profit, granted not as much as the movies.  People still want a KOTOR III and a Force Unleashed III. Those are old EU and significant profit.  As a whole the EU brought in a lot of profit for Lucasfilm.  As I recall, it was something like a third of the
profits at the point of the sale.  We have different goals with some
similarities.  We want to see stuff that we have read again.  We want it
through different avenues.  It appears though, that you have made up your
mind and aren’t willing to try and unite our goals.  Good luck on your
goal.
 It’s an easier one to accomplish than ours, but we obviously have
slightly differing goals.  I am sure we’d be willing to join your
campaign,
but the reverse doesn’t seem to be true.  Good Luck and Best Wishes.

OUR RESPONSE:

This page is a Star Wars Actors Guild 77 page. It was my brainchild. I’m Dr. G-

Understand? SWAG77 is really just 4-5 hardworking people. So when you say we did something to you somewhere, that is an indictment on me, and I take that
personally, because I don’t spread rumors.

On the attack page against SWAG77, they told their fans to dox me, and I got death threats. I defended myself at my booth at Star Wars Celebration that Lucasfilm allowed me to have. I believe in what I do. Fans at Star Wars Celebration were there to have fun. Many fans only knew who Darth Vader was. Our goal was to teach them who Thrawn is and to thank all the Thrawn cosplayers who stopped by the booth. The mini-golf helped.

You said the games, like KOTOR3 and TFU3, can be made, be clear, it took
3-4 years for Battlefront to be made. It’ll probably take the same for
the games. Are you in this for the long haul? Because the Get Thrawn In
campaign is built for that.

You all don’t seem to understand that you’ll have to give concessions. If
you don’t give Lucasfilm  creative freedom, and you will go unheard for a
long time.

I’m not going to protest reading a Star Wars book. But I will write my fan
fiction/script/short story, etc. to promote and upscale it to
Smashwords, Amazon, etc.

If you want your stories — then write them. What’s to stop you? And since
they “got rid of them,” it means you can sell what you write because
technically, they threw it in the garbage. All garbage cans are trash, and all trash can be searched and used in a particular way, legally.

I’ll promote the hell out of some good fan fiction, especially if it’s about Thrawn. I’d need 3000 to 7000 words.

Part 4